Sunday, January 14, 2024




"Kirtan" means "भक्ति-bhakti" Yoga.

Coexist Kirtan Center is non-partisan, non-sectarian, non-profit Pennsylvania corporation headquartered in Pittsburgh. Our purpose is to create a movement of compassion, cooperation, and world peace through education, interfaith dialogue, negotiation, and conflict resolution between creeds, sects, colors, casts, ethnic groups, and nations, catalyzed by popularizing the process of kirtan - congregational mantra-meditation, which is the only yoga process recommended for this particular age in authorized transcendental Vedic literature e.g., Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, & Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Since the 60's and 70's, various yoga fads have become all the rage in this country. ("Hot Yoga", "Lamb Yoga", "Heavy Metal Yoga", etc.), All of these are speculations - fanciful concoctions, and none are authorized or recommended in the ancient yoga scriptures like Bhagavad-gita

No one can successfully practice the bona-fide yoga process nowadays. The sitting postures and breathing exercises are a mechanical method of focusing the mind on the ātmā (soul) and the Paramātmā (supersoul, or localized aspect of the Supreme - both of which are located in the heart area of every living being.) Etymologically, the word yoga comes from the word "yoke," or connect the soul with the supersoul. First of all, nobody knows that connection with Visnu is the goal of yoga, and even if you did, how can you concentrate listening to heavy metal music or while your face is being licked by a lamb? In this age we have no attention span, because we're to addicted to watching Tic-Tok videos for our overloaded sensory entertainment.

This process provides direct connection with the soul/supersoul in the heart. "Kirtan" is congregational (call and response) mantra meditation on the Holy Names of Kṛṣṇa (God) - or ANY other name of God. Lord Caitanya, a powerful incarnation of the Supreme for this age (yuga-avatar), who appeared in West Bengal and spread this saṅkīrtana (congregational chanting) movement all across the subcontinent of India only 537 years ago. 

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada successfully executed the request of his guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati to bring this yoga process to the English speaking world, in 1966 he started chanting publicly in a park in New York city's lower eastside, it spread world-wide it is available in every town and villiage. This has initiated a temporary golden age during which the conditioned souls in this degraded Iron age of Kali (quarrel & hypocrisy) can float on the ocean of Love of God for the next 10,000 years.

"O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names." -Siksastakam (3)

Coexist Kirtan Center hosts weekly zoom reading/discussions of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and special "kirtan" programs with and a free veggie feast on special holidays @ "Shick" (AKA Scott) and Jennifer Manley's residence at 231 Hollywood St., Pittsburgh, PA 15205-3432.

Check out our Facebook group page, and join get notifications of upcoming Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam zoom sessions, kirtan dates, pictures, videos, stories, & realizations.

This is my humble attempt to follow in the footsteps of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who wrote in the preface to his translation and commentary of the Bhagavatam,
"We must know the present need of human society. And what is that need? Human society is no longer bounded by geographical limits to particular countries or communities. Human society is broader than in the Middle Ages, and the world tendency is toward one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, of the entire energy of living beings. The need is felt by great thinkers to make this a successful ideology. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will fill this need in human society. It begins, therefore, with the aphorism of Vedānta philosophy janmādy asya yatah to establish the ideal of a common cause."
That "common cause" is not just a egalitarian utopian scheme manufactured in the tiny brains of some human being, but is actually the Cause of all causes, the One God, Who is the creator and therefore the Owner of everything. Therefore we must use what He has so kindly given us in His service, not for our own sense gratification or political agenda. He is the best well-wishing friend of all living entities. That is the essence of "the peace formula."

In this age of Kali, filled with quarrel, hypocrisy, deep partisan political divisiveness and hateful violent religious extremism, this idea is urgently needed, because, as Prabhupada says, "it is a cultural presentation for the re-spiritualization of the entire human society."

Om🕉 tat sat

Peace☮

Monday, December 25, 2023

Sunday, December 24, 2023

The Striking Similarity Between the Birth and Activities of Christ and Krishna


(To watch an illustrative 6 minute slideshow video narration of this text by yours truly, click here.)
The Christmas story about the birth of Jesus Christ is famous all over the world. The gospels are telling us how Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem shortly before the birth of Christ. They were poor and suffered many hardships, culminating in having to stay and give birth in a stable. After the birth, the Holy Family had to flee to Egypt as the newborn’s life was threatened by the cruel king Herod. Afraid of the prophecy that he will lose his throne to new King of the Jews, Herod was desperately trying to kill all newborn male children under two in the village of Bethlehem.

In the case of Krishna, the King in question was not Herod but Kamsa. As the Srimad Bhagavatam says, after the wedding of Krishna’s parents, as Devaki and Vasudeva were being driven home by Devaki's brother King Kamsa, a prophetic unembodied voice announced that the 8th child of his sister would kill him. Cruel King Kamsa drew his sword to kill his own newly married sister, but his new brother-in-law Vasudeva convinced him that he would deliver all his offspring to him as they were born. Vasudeva was known for keeping his word, as were most people in those days 5000 years ago, and Kamsa refrained from his heinous deed for the time being. Later on, just to be on the safe side, Kamsa threw the couple into the dungeon for several years, and killed each child as they were born. So, just like Herod, Kamsa, too, committed the crime of infanticide. But all his plans failed because Lord Krishna appeared to Devaki and her husband Vasudeva in His four-armed form of Vishnu as Devaki’s eighth child. The inconceivable mystic potency of Krishna made all the shackles and locks on the prison doors to come open and the guards to fall asleep, allowing Vasudeva to escape from jail and bring newborn Lord Krishna to safety. Even after Krishna was taken elsewhere, Kamsa sent numerous terrible demoniac creatures to kill the child. But all of them were destroyed by Krishna one after another from the time He was an infant. God is always the supremely powerful God, even in His infant stage. Similarly, the infant Jesus was also saved from the wrath of cruel emperor Herod. Mary and Joseph were warned by means of an angel, urging them to flee with the child to Egypt.

The resemblance of the lives of Christ and Krishna doesn’t end there. Both grew up among simple people and continued to have special bonds to simple folks throughout their lives. Christ recruited his disciples from fishermen while Krishna grew up among cowherds in the small village of Vraja. During all of Krishna’s life Radha, a "gopi" or cowherd girl, was to be the woman closest to his heart. Both Christ and Kṛṣṇa were seen as embodiment of love, peace and understanding; both performed miracles of various kinds.

This book was written by my guru in 1985, who happened to be the son of a Baptist minister and the first disciple of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, who spread the science of non-sectarian universal God consciousness all over the world in the 60’s and 70’, and so is uniquely qualified to compare the two great spiritual traditions.

To purchase a new hardbound copy of this rare out of print book, click this link: Christ and Krishna : The Path of Pure Devotion | eBay You can also stream or download the entire audiobook narrated by yours truly for free by clicking here.



Tuesday, October 24, 2023

Weekly Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Zoom Discourse


I offer a free 40-minute Zoom class on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam every Wednesday at 6 pm. At that time, click here or enter meeting ID and password in the photo. 



If you would like to participate, or have any questions, text me at (412) 287-1667. We take turns reading from the book (optional-you can also just listen) with informal Q&A. Join our Facebook group to be notified of this and other events.


Pittsburgh Kirtan Center


The Pittsburgh Kirtan Center hosts Kirtan (musical mantra meditation) and a free vegetarian feast every Thursday night. See Facebook Group Page for details and join to stay informed. 

Thursdays: 6:30pm-9:00pm Kirtan programs followed by a vegetarian feast.


Currently, most of the entire building is being renovated, so until further notice (approx. Dec.) - the kirtan/feast will be held upstairs in Mukunda's (the center manager's) 2nd floor apartment through the door pictured to the right of the storefront windows. 



Adding a new kitchen in the basement (see the stove vents coming up)

Our address is (click on address below for street view);

Pittsburgh Kirtan Center
3513A Butler St.
Pittsburgh, PA  15201

The current owner of the building is Shyamasundara dasa, the president of ISKCON Pittsburgh.
























Phone: (312) 531-0079

(click to join and be notified of upcoming weekly/special events)

Monday, October 23, 2023

The Peace Formula

"The great mistake of modern civilization is to encroach upon other’s property as though it were one’s own and to thereby create an unnecessary disturbance of the laws of nature. These laws are very strong. No living entity can violate them. Only one who is God conscious can easily overcome the stringency of the laws of nature and thus become happy and peaceful in the world. As a state is protected by the department of law and order, so is the state of the Universe, of which this earth is only an insignificant fragment, is protected by the laws of nature. This material nature is one of the different potencies of God, who is the ultimate protector of everything that be. This earth is, therefore, the property of God, but we, the living entities, especially the so-called civilized human beings, are claiming God’s property as our own, under both and individual and collective false conception. If you want peace, you have to remove this false conception from your mind and from the world. This false claim of proprietorship by the human race on earth is partly or wholly the cause of all disturbances of foolish and so-called civilized men who are claiming proprietary rights on the property of God because they have now become godless. You cannot be happy and peaceful in a godless civilization. Although there are many civilizations, there is only one God, although He may be called many names in different countries. In the Bhagavad-gita, the holy book of India, Lord Krishna delineates the peace formula. He says that He is the factual enjoyer of all activities of the living entities, that He is the Supreme Lord of all universes, and that He is the well-wishing friend of all beings. When the people of the world know this as the formula for peace, it is then and there that peace will prevail.

Therefore, if you want peace at all, you will have to change your consciousness into God consciousness both individually and collectively, by the simple process of chanting the holy name of God. This is the standard and recognized process for achieving peace in the world. We therefore recommend that everyone become Krishna (God) conscious by chanting “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare”, or any name of God.

This is practical, simple, and sublime. Five hundred years ago, this formula was introduced in India by Lord Sri Caitanya, and now it is available in your country. Take to this simple process of chanting as above mentioned, realize your factual position by reading the Bhagavad-gita- As It Is, and reestablish your lost relationship with Krishna, God. Peace and prosperity will be the immediate worldwide result." - A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

For an illustrative video slideshow of on this piece, click here.

Sunday, October 22, 2023

Dodging Disease & Death Indefinitely

 


Click here to watch a 10-minute video slideshow/narration of a pamphlet written by Śikṣāṣtaka dāsa during the pandemic, inspired by a short quote (the 46 second audio of the actual quote is included at the end of the video) from a class given in Dallas in 1972 by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.

Here is a link to the transcript and audio of the entire Prabhupāda lecture.

If you would like to go deeper into this topic, there is a short book written by Swami Prabhupada entitled "Beyond Birth & Death" 

available on eBay here for $6 with free shipping. 

This book is based on the ancient science of Bhakti-yoga originally spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, translation and commentary by the same author. It has sold 26 million copies worldwide. This book is infinitely deep and has been in extant since time immemorial. Henry David Thoreau said, "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial."

The above 770 page pocket size edition is available here for $8 plus media mail shipping.

If you would like to join us to discuss these topics online, I offer a free 40-minute Zoom class on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam every Wednesday at 6 pm. At that time, click here or enter meeting ID and password in the photo. 



If you would like to participate, or have any questions, text me at (412) 287-1667. We take turns reading from the book (optional-you can also just listen) with informal Q&A. Join our Facebook group to be notified of this and other events.

Saturday, July 29, 2023

Free Audiobooks




The most important activity of devotional service is hearing.

In an initiation lecture, Prabhupāda stressed śravaṇam, or hearing about Kṛṣṇa:

“All these devotees present here, they are not Indians. I have not brought them from India, neither have I bribed them. But by hearing only, they are now coming to God consciousness and becoming devotees. Therefore this śravaṇam, or hearing, is very, very important. So all of you ladies and gentlemen present here, take advantage of hearing about God from this institution, and you also will become God conscious.” - Addendum to Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta, Vol. 7, Ch. 10

To facilitate that principle, I am reading audiobooks and posting them Google Drive for free. I have read all of his books. Currently I am reading literature in pursuance of the Vedic version written by other Vaishnavas in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya.

So far I've read the following as audio books (with purports) in alphabetical order: 
PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS:
A Second Chance, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is (w. Sanskrit, synonyms, translations, & purports), Beyond Birth and Death, Chanting Hare Krishna, Chant and be Happy, Civilization and Transcendence, Dharma: The Way of Transcendence, Dialectic Spiritualism, Easy Journey To Other Planets, Elevation to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Authorized, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is the Genuine Vedic Way, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness: The Topmost Yoga System, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness The Matchless Gift, Kṛṣṇa, Life Comes From Life, Light of the Bhāgavata, Nectar of Devotion, Nectar of Instruction, On Chanting the Hare Krishna Mantra, On the Way to Kṛṣṇa, Perfect Questions Perfect Answers, Rāja-Vidyā: The King of Knowledge, Renunciation Through Wisdom, Search for Liberation, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta (w. Bengali/Sanskrit, synonyms, translations, & purports), Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Srimad Bhāgavatam (12 cantos - w. Sanskrit, synonyms, translations, & purports), Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Teaching of Lord Kapila, Teachings of Queen Kunti, The Cause of All Causes, The Journey of Self Discovery, The Laws of Nature, The Path of Perfection, The Quest for Enlightenment, The Science of Self Realization, The Spiritual Master and the Disciple, Transcendental Teachings of Prahlāda Mahārāja, Two Essays, & The Ultimate Goal of Life
OTHER VAISNAVA BOOKS:
Baul Sangit - Songs of the Madman, Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu by Bhanu Swami, Bhakti-Rasāmṛta-Sindhu-Bindu, Bhakti Tattva Viveka, Bhaktyaloka, Brahma Samhita, BTG Articles, Caitanya Mangala, Chasing Rhinos Vol. 1, Chasing Rhinos Vol. 2, Confessions of a Prasadam Addict (partial), Dana-keli-kaumudi, Darwin's Doubt, Darwin On Trial, Dasa Mula Tattva, Gayatri Mantra, Gita Govinda, Gopāla Campū, Govinda Līlāmṛta (partial), Guru Tattva, Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya, Hari-bhakti-vilasa, Hiding in Unnatural Happiness, I'll Build You a Temple, Jaiva Dharma, Journey to Unknown India, Life's Final Exam (partial), Kṛṣṇa Bhāvanāmṛta, Laghu-Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī, Legacy of Love, Love, Medicine, and Music, Madhava Mahotsava, Mādhurya Kādambinī, Mahābhārata, Miracle on 2nd Ave., Mukunda-mālā-stotra, Mysteries of Creation, Nārada-bhakti-sūtra, Narada-pancaratra, On Speaking Strongly in Srila Prabhupada's Service, Origins Magazine, Our Family Business, Prema-bhakti-candrikā, Ramayana, Salted Bread, Saranagati, Sārārtha-darśinī, Sri Amnaya-sutra, Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Vaibhava, Śrī Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta, Śrī Caitanya Bhagavat, Śrī Caitanya Bhagavat w. Bhaktisiddhanta commentary, Śrī Caitanya Śikṣāmṛta, Śrī Hari-nama-Cinatmani, Sri Jagannatha-vallabha, Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta (7 volumes), Sri Mukta Carita, Sri Manah-siksa, Sri Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya, Sri Nityananda Caritamrta, Śrī Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛtam, Śrī Kṛṣṇa-vijaya, Śrī-laghu-bhāgavatāmṛta, Sri Lalita-Mādhava, Sri Vraja-vilasa-stava, Stavavali, Swami in a Strange Land, Taking Care of Krishna’s Devotees, Tattva-sandarbha, The Art of Spiritual Life (partial), The Bhagavata, The Hare Krishna Explosion, The Living Name, The Sages of Naimishiranya, Two Avatars, Uddhava-gītā, Ujjvala Nilamani, Ujjvala Nīlamaṇi Kiraṇa, Vidagdha-mādhava, Vidura’s Pilgrimage.
TOTAL SIZE/LENGTH: (over 100GB - 3 months of continuous audio)
These titles are all free for download or streaming from Google Drive. 
To access all of them, click here.

Tuesday, July 4, 2023

Nearly 50 years ago, in 1976, Americans were celebrating the bicentennial of the "War of Independence" to assure life, liberty, and happiness in a fledgling nation. That year, in a conversation with the staff of the magazine BACK TO GODHEAD, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains how Americans can actually achieve these things.


BTG: Thomas Jefferson put the basic philosophy of the American Revolution into the Declaration of Independence. The important men of the day who signed this document agreed that there are certain very obvious or self-evident truths; the first of which is that all men are created equal. By this they meant that all men are equal before the law and have an equal opportunity to be protected by the law.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, in that sense men are, as you say, created equal.
BTG: Another point in the Declaration of Independence is that all men are endowed by God with certain natural rights that cannot be taken away from them. These are the rights of life, liberty, and—
Srila Prabhupada: But animals also have the right to life. Why don’t animals also have the right to live? The rabbits, for instance, are living in their own way in the forest. Why does the government allow hunters to go and shoot them?
BTG: They were simply talking about human beings.
Srila Prabhupada: Then they have no real philosophy. The narrow idea that my family or my brother is good, and that I can kill others, is criminal. Suppose that for my family’s sake I kill your father. Is that philosophy? Real philosophy is suhrdam sarva-bhutanam: friendly to all living entities. Certainly this applies to human beings, but even if you unnecessarily kill one animal, I shall immediately protest, “What nonsense are you doing?”
BTG: The founders of America said that another natural right is the right to liberty, or freedom. Freedom in the sense that the government doesn’t have the right to tell you what kind of job you have to do.
Srila Prabhupada: If the government is not perfect, it should not be allowed to tell people what to do. But if the government is perfect, then it can.
BTG: The third natural right they mentioned was that every human being has the right to pursue happiness.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. But your standard of happiness may be different from my standard. You may like to eat meat; I hate it. How can your standard of happiness be equal to mine?
BTG: So should everyone be free to try to achieve whatever standard of happiness he wants?
Srila Prabhupada: No, the standard of happiness should be prescribed according to the qualities of the person. You must divide the whole society into four groups: those with brahmana qualities, those with ksatriya qualities, those with vaisya qualities, and those with sudra qualities. Everyone should have good facility to work according to his natural qualities.
You cannot engage a bull in the business of a horse, nor can you engage a horse in the business of a bull. Today practically everyone is getting a college education. But what is taught at these colleges? Mostly technical knowledge, which is sudra education. Real higher education means learning Vedic wisdom. This is meant for the brahmanas. Alone, sudra education leads to a chaotic condition. Everyone should be tested to find out which education he is suited for. Some sudras may be given technical education, but most sudras should work on the farms. Because everyone is coming to the cities to get an education, thinking, “We can get more money,” the agriculture is being neglected. Now there is scarcity because no one is engaged in producing nice foodstuffs. All these anomalies have been caused by bad government. It is the duty of the government to see that everyone is engaged according to his natural qualities. Then people will be happy.
BTG: So if the government artificially puts all men into one class, then there can’t be happiness.
Srila Prabhupada: No, that is unnatural and will cause chaos.
BTG: America’s founding fathers didn’t like classes because they’d had such bad experience with them. Before the revolution, Americans had been ruled by monarchs, but the monarchs would always become tyrannical and unjust.
Srila Prabhupada: Because they weren’t trained to be saintly monarchs. In Vedic civilization, boys were trained from the very beginning of life as first class brahmacaris [celibate students]. They went to the guru-kula, the school of the spiritual master, and learned self-control, cleanliness, truthfulness, and many other saintly qualities. The best of them were later fit to rule the country.
The American Revolution has no special significance. The point is that when people become unhappy, they revolt. That was done in America, that was done in France, and that was done in Russia.
BTG: The American revolutionaries said that if a government fails to rule the people properly, then the people have the right to dissolve that government.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Just as in Nixon’s case: they pulled him down. But if they replace Nixon with another Nixon, then what is the value? They must know how to replace Nixon with a saintly leader. Because people do not have that training and that culture, they will go on electing one Nixon after another and never become happy. People can be happy. The formula for happiness is there in the Bhagavad-gita. The first thing they must know is that the land belongs to God. Why do Americans claim that the land belongs to them? When the first settlers went to America, they said, “This land belongs to God, therefore we have a right to live here.” So why are they now not allowing others to settle on the land? What is their philosophy? There are so many overpopulated countries. The American government should let the people go to America and should give them facility to cultivate the land and produce grains. Why are they not doing that? They have taken others’ property by force, and by force they are checking others from going there. What is the philosophy behind this?
BTG: There is no philosophy.
Srila Prabhupada: Rogueism is their philosophy. They take the property by force, and then they make a law that no one can take another’s property by force. So they are thieves. They cannot restrict God’s property from being occupied by God’s sons. America and the other countries in the United Nations should agree that wherever there is enough land, it may be utilized by the human society for producing food. The government can say, “All right, you are overpopulated. Your people can come here. We will give them lands and they can produce food’.” We would see a wonderful result. But will they do that? No. Then what is their philosophy? Rogueism. “I will take the land by force, and then I won’t allow others to come here.”
BTG: One American motto is, “One nation under God.”
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is Krsna consciousness. There should be one nation under God, and one world government under God as well. Everything belongs to God, and we are all His sons. That philosophy is wanted.
BTG: But in America people are very much afraid of a central government, because they think that whenever there’s a strong government there will always be tyranny.
Srila Prabhupada: If the leaders are properly trained, there cannot be tyranny.
BTG: But one of the premises of the American system of government is that if a leader has too much power, he will inevitably become corrupt.
Srila Prabhupada: You have train him in such a way that he cannot become corrupt!
BTG: What is that training process?
Srila Prabhupada: That training is the varnasrama-dharma. Divide the society according to quality and train people in the principle that everything belongs to God and should be used in the service of God. Then there really can be “one nation under God.”
BTG: But if society is divided into different groups, won’t there be envy?
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. Just as in my body there are different parts that work together, so the society can have different parts working for the same goal. My hand is different from my leg. But when I tell the hand. “Bring a glass of water,” the leg will help. The leg is required, and the hand is required.
BTG: But in the Western world we have a working class and a capitalist class, and there is always warfare going on between the two.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The capitalist class is required, and the working class is also required.
BTG: But they are fighting.
Srila Prabhupada: Because they are not trained up, they have no common cause. The hand and the leg work differently, but the common cause is to maintain the body. So if you find out the common cause for both the capitalists and the workers, then there will be no fighting. But if you do not know the common cause, then there will always be fighting
BTG: Revolution?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
BTG: Then the most important thing is to find the common cause that people can unite on?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, just like in our Krsna conscious society you come to consult me about every activity because I can give you the common cause. Otherwise, there will be fighting. The government should be very expert to know the aim of life—the common cause—and they should train the people to work for the common cause. Then they will be happy and peaceful. But if people simply elect rascals like Nixon, they will never find a common cause. Any rascal can secure votes by some arrangement, and then he becomes the head of the government. The candidates are bribing, they are cheating, they are making propaganda to win votes. Somehow or other they get votes and capture the prime post. This system is bad.
BTG: So if we don’t choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?
Srila Prabhupada: You require brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, and sudras. Just as when you want to construct a building, you require engineers. You don’t want sweepers. Isn’t that so? What will the sweeper do? No, there must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varnasrama, only ksatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly—the senators—only qualified brahmanas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher, but by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Krsna conscious society, we’re actually doing that, but in the case of politics, they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness, because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art, then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work, there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause: to maintain the body properly.
BTG: What is the actual duty of the government?
Srila Prabhupada: To understand what God wants, and to see that society works toward that aim. Then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy? The government’s duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God and to act according to His instructions. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do, or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today.
BTG: In the United States there has traditionally been the separation of church and state.
Srila Prabhupada: I am not talking about the church. Church or no church—that is not the point. The main thing is that the leaders have to accept that there is a supreme controller. How can they deny it? Everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord’s control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don’t they accept a supreme controller? That is the defect in society. In every respect, the leaders are feeling that there must be a supreme controller, and yet they are still denying Him.
BTG: But suppose the government is atheistic…
Srila Prabhupada: Then there cannot be good government. The Americans say they trust in God. But without the science of God, that trust is simply fictitious. First take the science of God very seriously, then put your trust in Him. They do not know what God is, but we do. We actually trust in God. They’re manufacturing their own way of governing. And that is their defect. They will never be successful. They are imperfect, and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means, they will remain imperfect. There will always be revolutions—one after another. There will be no peace.
BTG: Who determines the regulative principles of religion that people should follow?
Srila Prabhupada: God. God is perfect. He does that. According to the Vedic version, God is the leader of all living entities (nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam). We are different from Him because He is all-perfect, and we are not. We are very small. We have the qualities of God, but in very small quantity. Therefore we have only a little knowledge—that’s all. With a little knowledge you can manufacture a 747 airplane, but you cannot manufacture a mosquito. God has created the mosquito’s body, which is also an “airplane.” And that is the difference between God and us: we have knowledge, but it is not as perfect as God’s. So the leaders of the government have to consult God; then they will rule perfectly.
BTG: Has God also devised the most perfect government?
Srila Prabhupada: Oh, yes. The ksatriyas ruled the government in Vedic times. When there was a war, the king was the first to fight. Just like your George Washington: he fought when there was a war. But what kind of president is ruling now? When there is a war, he sits very securely and telephones orders. He’s not fit to be president. When there is war, the president should be the first to come forward and lead the battle.
BTG: But if man is small and imperfect, how can he execute God’s perfect orders for a perfect government?
Srila Prabhupada: Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you’re becoming perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly.
BTG: So good government means first of all to accept the supreme being as the real ruler of the government?
Srila Prabhupada: You cannot directly accept the supreme being. You must accept the servants of the supreme being—the brahmanas or Vaisnavas [devotees of the Lord]—as your guides. The government men are the ksatriyas—the second class. The ksatriyas should take advice from the brahmanas or Vaisnavas and make laws accordingly. The vaisyas should carry out the ksatriyas’ orders in practice. And the sudras should work under these three orders. Then society will be perfect.

To stream my audio narration of this conversation, click here.